Or whatever. Scale mail barding gives the horse an AC15 but that's getting a bit on the heavier side at 180 pounds (so it might cause for a slower mount) but perhaps not that gamebreaking still. However, I'm also proposing a rule making it less powerful: requiring the spell to be prepared as one of the 1/2 level + CHA. It does not say 'only' and it is understood by the majority that you can fight with the mounts from both find steed and find greater steed... which is to say the mounts you summon can attack, take the attack action, make attacks, and in any and every way attack. That is why it is [REDACTED]. Stop taking out your prejudice on a class feature. A Paladin mount is far superior than any purchased mount period. Instead of having a permanent ally that you summon that can be killed very easily you want a semi permanent ally that retain all gear it recieves? https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/13/party-wanted-to-attach-a-chest-to-paladins-horse-then-dismiss-mount-to-hide-item-possible/. As I stated multiple times the entire thing put forth by the OP is [REDACTED] because there is absolutely no consequences what so ever. Do not take an armchair warrior opinion on something. Once given, they cannot be demanded back...but the steed could in theory give them back in instances of upgrades or maintenance. You are the one that came in swinging accusations that are proven wrong by simple searches that negate that past iterations had restrictions. First Find Greater Steed is essentially an up cast of Find Steed. On a terms of spell power this now makes this spell OP. RAW the Find Steed spell summons a naked horse. Find steed and find greater steed are the same in that regard. Just search saddles in D&D Beyond and you'll see what I'm talking about. Hello, Paladin fans! And so, when summoning while away from a city (locked in tower, shipwrecked, kidnapped in the night, more than a mile away across town, etc) summoning the horse gives you an "unridable" horse. Conjuration. You gain the following benefits: On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action. You utter foul words, summoning one demon from the chaos of the Abyss. Instead he nitpicks past edition things he likes and adds them to 5e with out factoring in past edition limitations and dismissing 5e limitations. I don't really get what your complaint is with semi-permanent. But that's implying you are butt ass naked because everything has weight. Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, their respective logos, and all Wizards titles and characters are property of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the U.S.A. and other countries. share. report. I'm wondering if there's a consensus of the most powerful mount among the options listed for Find Greater Steed, both in terms of combat survivabiltiy, and out of combat utility. Summoned creatures dont come with gear. Find steed is a 2nd-level spell that is only available to paladins (from 5th level upwards, when they gain access to 2nd-level spells). For knights and nobles, there is usually some sort of colors or coat-of-arms or heraldry that one would put on their horse. Find Steed Edit Page Content. In 3e it was a Horse you got nothing more. With what ou propose you're making the spell entirely two powerful for a 2nd level spell slot At no real cost what so ever. Sturdier than the Peryton (-1 AC but +26hp, 37 if both at max hp), with Keen Sights. It's not opinion dude its supported by both RAW and RAI. If that purchased horse dies or is returned or sold, generally the saddle might be left with the horse. • Unlock 31 different subclasses, like the Hexblade Warlock and the Swashbuckler in the Character Builder It states you summon the spirit and that when the spirit dies or is Dismissed it disappears. save. Follow edited Feb 23 '17 at 22:21. answered Feb 23 '17 at 22:13. Furthermore Find Steed says this: When the steed drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. Casting this spell again re—summons the bonded mount, with all its hit points restored and any conditions removed. If you wanted to make your alternate rules closer to 3.5 as it appears take all of 3.5s rules governing the Paladin Mount or keep the ones that are 5e rules. A warhorse with plate mail, summoned or not, would only be found among the very rich and the very high level. The mount disappears temporarily when it drops to 0 hit points or when you dismiss it as an action. Remembering that the caster of find steed can always release a summoned steed and conjure a new one, it doesn't seem like there's much real gameplay value in fiddling around with the player character having to forage for sprit-horse feed. It was a better horse because it lvled up. (And yes, I'd have the same rule for other permanent allies such as Find Familiar). Rather than having Find Steed and Find Greater Steed, you have one spell that can be upcast. I dont think that would be balanced at all. Leather barding and studded leather barding would make AC12 and AC13 respectively. But I'll work with what I've got. Maybe not. Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all special class abilities if she ever willingly commits an act of evil. Antesse in response to your last question that I did not see because of Madangrys responses. For the most part hallways are 10-15 ft high, but the rooms are generally as high as they are wide, so a 40x40 room would be 40 ft high. Again The Mount dies fairly fast and requires you to have to recast it to get the mount back. It's only penalty is its gear is dropped. I can post a few other Jeremy Crawford advice that ended up being Errata to something completely different. Hi guys! Hmmm no mention of it being from a God or that it automatically appears next to you. Do you realize how bulky and heavy a mounts gear actually is. Summon Greater Demon A spell from Xanathar's Guide To Everything. It is also possible that a DM might read more into the way certain rules are worded so it is always worth checking with them, but as I say, the vast majority don't even question whether or not your mount can be a combatant in solo combat. Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, etc. 5 comments. ), help those who need help (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those that harm or threaten innocents. You get better mounts than Find Steed does. Summoning a mount is similar. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the steed takes on a form that you choose: a warhorse, a pony, a camel, an elk, or a mastiff. Technically the warhorse entry does have a sidebar for a variant warhorse with barding and that barding does not alter challenge rating. This is almost as stupid as a homebrew wyvern mount I saw on this site that cant be killed and when unconscious still follows you around. You get to make use of the full action of the Mount along with the Full Action of the Rider. They're meant to be Tier 4 paladin boosts, but of course that makes them Tier 2 bard boosts lol The Dragon's Breath spell is also a pretty massive boon for Find Steed. I've found that the giant spider mount is great for two purposes. Third this is a summoned creature. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a -1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls. It does not take gear with them if they were to disappear for one reason or another, so hauling gear back is going to be required if the party can't wait a Long Rest +10 minutes. 20200211-1: Coded for Medium Armor Master 20200212-1: Fixed initiative for Alert feat & Jack of all Trades They often make an attack themselves and an attack with the mount, or, if separated from their mounts, make their own attacks and then make a solo attack for their mount. First Jeremy Crawford sage advice is not RAW and was never meant to be. I'd almost argue that the mount appears with saddle and horse gear and bright colored garments on the first cast: it is supposed to be the mount of a paladin. It does not say like past editions that gear goes with it if its dismissed. There is no mention that a paladin order gave it to the paladin either. I have been looking at everything Paladin recently and there are a few things different that I would do with the Find Steed spell. So Its a SPIRIT. But yeah, I understand your concern about having a plate mail warhorse. The spell has been out for nearly 5 years and it has never been added and thus should not be consider RAW. I very much don't get the argument against the saddle at all though. That said, if the beast has equipment in its stat block I see no reason not to play as is. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. Find greater steed is just newer and has clearer wording. While you have the str yo carry 150 Rapiers it's not saying you have 150 rapiers in one hand. Xanathar's Guide to Everything is the first major expansion for fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons, offering new rules and story options for your game. Like I said this entire notion is [REDACTED] you are nitpicking desired effects [REDACTED]. First Find Greater Steed is essentially an up cast of Find Steed. Also Paladin Mounts bypass how normal mounted combat can work because you can still be mounted on an uncontrolled mount that is still under your control because of the bond of the mount to the Paladin. A STR 20 character is far beyond any skill of a normal person bordering on Demi-God status. RAW the steed appears with no saddle, no barding, no blankets, no saddlebags, no ten days of horse feed, no colored heraldry for the paladin, nothing. Really [REDACTED] then point out where in RAW it states gear disappears with it? It's more if you had 150 rapiers in a sac you could carry it. Jan 5, 2017 #1 I was wondering, the steed that is summoned by this 2nd level paladin spell- does this creature need to eat and drink? Mismatching them will unbalance the spell. Thread starter auggie; Start date Jan 5, 2017; A. auggie First Post. We can agree to disagree but you are the one with the attitude and I just responded with the same. You can summon the mount at any time with any of the gear you had on it. 1. You get better mounts than Find Steed does. What I am proposing is the steed has the items that the paladin gifts to it, appears with those items, and disappears with those items. It suggests that after dismissing the steed you have to recast the spell to get it back while with Find Familiar it only requires an action. Without that rule it just seems like more of a class feature and literally every paladin (because every paladin has access to the spell) would just summon a mount one day during time off and just have it. You mistake me saying something is idiotic as an attitude. Find Steed. A paladin with all of their gear would be...almost 300 of that maybe...200 pounds for a beefy adult plus almost 100 pounds of gear? With a 4th level slot, it acts as Find Greater Steed. The Majority of Paladins always have find Steed prepared. Improve this answer. Can mounts summoned by "Find Greater Steed" be used in combat? Notes: Please be respectful of your fellow community members. Elsewhere on this forum is a discussion of when the paladin should be able to get 1500GP together for their own plate mail. Find steed / find greater steed—when you ride the mount in combat, you decide whether it follows the rules for a controlled or an independent mount. Furthermore it is your place to make the case RAW supports what you say. But I'll get back to 3.5 in a second. Please ensure that when entering into discussions with your fellow community members that you each treat one another with respect. A good interpretation but not RAW. Source: Player's Handbook. Source: Player's Handbook. Find steed is an OK spell; I think that you are overstating its power next to other 2nd level spells but you are entitled to your opinion. I think having the spell scale by CR is a good start point. Even if he doesnt he has still to be able to state how RAW supports having gear. You mention that my idea makes for a semi-permanent ally instead of a permanent ally. Find Familiar. It depends on the stat block. Summoned creatures dont come with gear. The new mount has all the accumulated abilities due a mount of the paladin's level. You summon a spirit that assumes the form of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed, creating a long-lasting bond with it. As an optional rule, perhaps the steed can be gifted treasure which disappears with it which the steed could hoard or use for their own purposes (horse bars in heaven? No talk about an order giving them the mount. It seems really odd to me that you can prepare the spell, cast it, then wake up the next morning and prepare new spells and you just have a permanent ally with no investment of a prepared spell (you already don't have the investment of the spell slot). Spells. If you think it's idiotic then fair enough and don't take these suggested rules. Perhaps the steed stays around but when you don't have the spell prepared you don't have spell sharing and telepathy and so forth and the steed is just an intelligent animal? If a player wanted to upgrade the barding they could but it was expensive and had to make sense. Please enable JavaScript to get the best experience from this site. This mount is usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium-size paladin) or a warpony (for a Small paladin). While harsh this is a balance to having a walking teleporting gear sachel at the whim. Find greater steed should now be the only way to summon more powerful steeds. You seem to bring up two points. Great help, but there are a few problems in Beta So I love the D&D beyond website for making characters for my campaigns, but since the app is still in it’s sort of early stages, there are some (but not many) problems I’ve had, more or less just tedious little things. Would you still recommend Find Greater Steed as a MS in a game like Dungeon of the Mad Mage where basically the entire campaign is in an underground mega-dungeon. (The lore behind this thread is a Dragonborn Paladin can summon dragons as mounts, such as a modified ambush drake or a wyvern, and I am wondering if I can use my Wyvern in combat. Which is his interpretation and you as a DM can do whatever you want. It was not a horse that was given to you by a god or that resided in celestia. Find greater steed was a powerful conjuration spell that allowed a paladin to summon a spirit to take the form of an impressive steed.1 1 Effects 2 Components 3 Appendix 3.1 References The spell was similar to find steed, in that it called forth a celestial, fey, or fiendish spirit to assume the form of a loyal and intelligent steed. You can also dismiss your steed at any time as an action, causing it to disappear. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the spirit takes on a form you choose: a griffon, a pegasus, a peryton, a dire wolf, a rhinoceros, or a saber-toothed tiger. No random bags of treasure or extra weapons, only things specifically for the steed. But hey let's dismiss what the RAI is, that these mounts were heavily restricted in past editions on their deaths, etc. If the mount is not Independent, then the Rider just gets a boost to Mobility and access to certain feats and weapons. Now if you wanted to have a different creature as a mount and made its stats with in reason of the creatures you can get that's completely understandable as it's just flavor at that point. You are against that because you think it is OP but that is your OPINION. Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, their respective logos, and all Wizards titles and characters are property of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the U.S.A. and other countries. Learned how that works in my favor still when, after a monster dismounted me, I got an easy kill after Trampling and Adv Bashing it. Balanced? Like Nutronic mentioned, the spell functions in the same vein as Find Familiar. Back to the spell though. As now you can have a Steed show up that is n intelligent mount loyal to you and does what you say that can now have an 18 AC if it had plate etc. We are splitting hairs but you are taking things as fact when it is not fact but your opinion. ©2021 D&D Beyond | All Rights Reserved | Powered by Fandom Games. Find Greater Steed mounts are NOT combatants. If you're using the optional encumbrance rules, the warhorse can carry 360 pounds without slowing down and 720 without experiencing disadvantage (taking into account 18 strength, large size, and an extra x2 for four legs which I do not remember is an actual rule in 5e). Great Weapon Master. The confusion comes from the text from "Find Steed" that says the creature you summon can only be a mount, but "Find Greater Steed" doesn't say that the summoned mount can only be used as a mount. I get the argument against barding appearing on the summoned mount. I would strongly argue that an AC13 horse at mid-level play is not gamebreaking at all. It is not it is a description. Two of the most popular are DnDBeyond.com and Roll20.net. MY and all the DMS iv played with share the OPINION that it comes with gear. Items are now giftable. This is 5e though and it does not state in the spell description it comes with or with-out equipment. Third this is a summoned creature. If it was it would have been added to the Sage Advice compendium. Or bags of horse feed refilled. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed )including barding, saddle, saddlebags, and the like). I don't understand the issue here? Now, the mundane horse is trained to deal with that load but the summoned horse might also be able to say no to the paladin just like a humanoid friend might say no to heavy armor so that's a factor one could consider. As a player ask the DM and let him decide. The steed is meant to disappear the way it appeared: naked. So no a Paladin Steed does not come with items or maintains them. First starting out a mount was gifted to a Paladin by your Order. Cast it on yourself, your steed gets it too; it's not an attack … Simply because its brings vary great bonuses especially if your character is set up for mounted combat. Greater steeds (potentially) bring flying, massive speed, and of course a much larger HP pool. You summon a spirit that assumes the form of a loyal, majestic mount. We are talking about Paladins in D&D. In the previous editions it was summoned from the celestial plan AND CAME WITH ALL ITS GEAR. I don't see you refuting my first idea of having one spell that is upcast. Eventually, he just started targeting the mount when I didn't have the Mounted Combatant Feat. 20200207-1: Added ammo to ranged weapons. I find nothing wrong with a paladin mount being summoned with gear as long as it is only mount gear. Your entire RAW comparison is even further [REDACTED]. You are trying to punish paladins because you think the feature is OP when it is not. Correct me if I'm wrong... 3. Share. The horse also lacks any heraldry/symbols/etc that the paladin might want to have which seems like something important maybe. Here's my second angle on the topic. Plate armor on a flying creature does not make sense and has never been an issue. ©2021 D&D Beyond | All Rights Reserved | Powered by Fandom Games. hide. In short, if I were a paladin I would want my summoned steed to walk out of the mists/circle/sky/etc like this: http://www.suitability.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/Heather Andreini photo 2.jpg. It would be stupid to think a guard will give you a mount without the gear to ride it. With the majority of standard settings being in dungeons, majority of mounts will have a hard time getting a lot of use. - Single Choice. Not too pricey, not too heavy, and not too hard to convince your horse friend to wear. Because [REDACTED] you say this is my opinion. Should you allow a player to carry 150 rapiers? 3a. The idea is that it would leave gear behind. 1st-level conjuration (ritual) Casting Time: 1 hour Range: 10 feet Components: V, S, M (10 gp worth of charcoal, incense, and herbs that must be consumed by fire in a brass brazier) Duration: Instantaneous. Adding on 260 pounds of heavy metal barding (which is the weight of plate mail barding) would definitely cause the horse to drop 10 feet of speed. The DM will provide information about the mount that responds to the paladin's call. D&D Beyond is a great resource for creating character sheets, looking up spells and monsters, and just general D&D information. From want I've read of the spell it doesn't say you need to have it prepared. I’m just thinking of the battle weary paladin crawling out of the Dungeon exhausted, near dead, out of spell slots having to finish a long rest before he can summon his companion. ©2021 Wizards. Special Mount: Upon or after reaching 5th level, a paladin can call an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve him or her in her crusade against evil. That way find greater steed is still relevant for unlocking more powerful magical creatures. If you want a way to upgrade the steed, I think the fact it's actually a spirit that can change shape means that adding scalling to the spell should solve that issue. Is this the mount acting Independently or does it only act by it's rider. I get not having barding appear but that's just a few points of AC to leave the horse less vulnerable and make it more viable for higher levels. Find Greater Steed definitely makes this route (bard steedmaster) way stronger. How you state … That's acceptable I suppose for some knights/paladins/nobles/etc. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the spirit takes on a form you choose: a griffon, a pegasus, a peryton, a dire wolf, a rhinoceros, or a saber—toothed tiger. I think they did a good job on 5e mounts. Search by name on the left, click spell name to display on the right. Its ridiculous. Second the reason for Find Steed harkins back to past editions where Paladins got Mounts for free. Maybe add in condition where you can only get beasts. Every single one of my DMs and when I DM have made the mount come with basic gear when it is summoned. How you state this is idiotic as it gives you a free storage of gear as long as it's on your mount. It's minor but that way you are focusing some magic focus on connecting to your steed which makes sense. What is more realistic is lighter barding. I was hoping for a little more helpful discourse. With a 3rd or 5th level slot, it could have a different list of mount options (CR1 and CR3 respectively) if that doesn't seem too powerful. Should the paladin's mount die, another cannot be called for a year and a day. Koplony, vedalken wizard(chronurger) 7, Coliseum of ConquestTyde, human wizard(evoker) 4, Shadowthorn's Princes of the ApocalypseBanzo, tortle wizard(war magic) 4, Allansia Wildlands. Most of the time the mounts were sent by the Gods and it included their gear. It's the cost of using the most powerful mounts in the game as you never have to make animal handling checks, the DM never has control of what your mount does, etc. The griffon feels like the strongest to me. I also never said Safe advise was RAW I said RAI [REDACTED]. That is why it is not RAW and should not be taken as such.
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